Jul 4 BEWARE OF KEYLOGGERS! Don't follow that link! Version 2.0 added updates, new information, and cleaned up the format. Transferred from the Old Welcome to WoW forum. -Tera/Baloo I figured that a thread alerting new forum goers of our incessant keylogger issues right off the bat would be best suited in the Welcome/Beginners forum....so here goes... What is a Keylogger? How does it work? and why do I care? The World of Warcraft forums are a good place to come if you need information about your class, spec, profession or just have questions about the game in general. Unfortunately, a long with the good information that can be found here, there are also "people" who post links to websites that may imitate a legitimate WoW related website, but actually have a hidden program that gets installed on your computer in the background, without your knowledge. These small programs or scripts are used to record any keystrokes that you make on the keyboard, and secretly send those recorded keystrokes to a person who will then use that information to gain illegal access to your WoW account, bank account, or any other sensitive information. People who have their accounts "hacked" in this manner, will find that when they log on to their characters they have been stripped of any and all gear, crafting materials, Bank contents liquidated, and all of their gold gone. The violated account will then be used to re-post more links to keylogger websites on the official WoW forums in an effort to perpetuate the problem. Eventually the account will be left with nothing more than naked toons, and in some cases the characters are deleted as well once the account has been banned from posting in the forums by the Blizzard Moderators. These hidden programs or scripts can be embedded, actually hidden inside the data of other types of files such as Pictures, movies, flash objects or malicious web pages. How do I know if a link is a Keylogger or not? Well, after you have seen a few of them, you start to notice a few different things that they all seem to have in common. First, most of the time keyloggers are some random topic or a link to some picture or web page that has NOTHING to do with WoW or the topic in which the link is posted. These links are usually accompanied by some random one line comment that makes little or no sense. Also most of the time these links are Chinese specific domains, such as: somedomain dot "cn". An example might look like: > "It's too good to be true!" (followed by a link to a picture) > "Naked woman caught by satellite!" (followed by a link to a picture or video, and a statement such as:"Don't be so relaxed while you are taking the sun naked in the garden of your house... Big brother could be watching you!!!)" > "NERF INC!" (followed by a link to a picture) > "Just Beautiful! (followed by a link to a picture) >"Huge Alliance raid on Halaa (w/ pics)" (with several links to pictures)** (See note below) >"Shapeshifting proposals (Again, with pics)" (with several links to pictures)** >"Hey Kalgan, we're fine!" (With links to several .php documents, Kalgan is/was a WoW Developer) >"#%!#!!ex Toy" (Links to videos embedded in PHP scripts, with a story about a "neglected" girlfriend) Also, some examples of websites that seem to be posted a bunch "look" like they are WOW related websites, but upon closer inspection they are actually not legit: -warldofwarcraft -worldofworceaft - mmosgame - warcraftmoviies (note the double "ii" in movies) - warcraftm0vies (note the Zero in place of an "o") ** "warcraftmovies" IS a legitimate website ** **Note** It seems that whoever is posting the Key Loggers has gotten a bit less lazy and actually put some scheme together that looks like a legit post. These posts are usually about some "proposal/suggestion or bug fix (note:these issues should only be reported in the Suggestions or Bug Reports forums, NOT in the Welcome/Beginners forum, so that's your first clue.)" or of a raid on a major city. Most recently is a raid on Halaa (the PVP objective in Nagrand, Outland), with several links to pictures of their "event or evidence". These links are hostile and will infect your system. If someone is legitimately posting up pictures of a raid, they will be active on the forums and will usually be willing to speak with you about the link in question, whereas a keylogger almost certainly won't respond.Baloo129 Jul 4
Because the thing is, that sentence applies to both sides and it drives me crazy. Most comments about either Classic or Battle for Azeroth end up in mud-slinging matches for no real reason other then one side is being negative about the other side's favorite version of WoW. And the funny thing is, there are way, WAY more commonalities than differences in there, after you remove the ego of "my WoW is/was better yours sucks". In the end, no matter what anyone says, they are talking and arguing and fighting about it because they care about WoW.
Most profitable professions are considered to be Herbalism and Enchanting in pair. You can have Enchanting only for Disenchanting skill, it will bring decent gold. Consider the fact of disenchanting all soulbound armor, not just selling them to a vendor, but I do not recommend to disenchant any kind of weapons, it is more profitable to sell it to a merchant if it is a soulbound item, or sell it on auction house if it is BoE (bind on equip).
The simple truth behind all of this bickering and squabbling is that there really isn't a bad way to enjoy a game. You like the feeling of Classic taking you back to your young(er) days and that rush of falling in love with WoW for the first time? You like the slower pace of both combat and leveling? You like that the social aspects of the game take a front seat? Good, enjoy it! You prefer modern WoW and BfA with it's tons of improvements, smoother design and more player-friendly features? Great, enjoy it! It doesn't matter whether you prefer modern WoW or Classic or WotLK or whichever your personal high-point was (it was Burning Crusade and Legion for me), you're not wrong. You literally can't be. No matter what anyone says in all these heated discussions, they care about WoW, in whatever form they prefer it. So why can't this be enough of a commonality for us to have a civil discourse?
One thing they told me when I dabbled into computer science back at university was that 80% of the bugs only take 20% of your time to fix. That's why sometimes you see issues persisting for very long times, not because the devs are lazy or incompetent, but because there is usually a priority list of problems, with the severe-but-easy-to-fix ones always taking precedent and the not-game-breaking-but-difficult-to-solve problems being last line.
Blizzard said it will choose players who have active subscriptions to the regular game based on a variety of factors to help them test the beta. It could be based on your PC, your commitment to the game, or just your luck. If you get in, you’ll likely receive an email, but if not, you can check your launcher. And remember: as with any beta, your progress will not be saved for when the game launches later this year.
1. Vue d'ensemble de la classe Voleur 2. La meilleure race pour Voleur 3. Astuces leveling pour le Voleur 4. Les poison du Voleur 5. Addons pour Voleur 6. La meilleure spé pour le leveling 7. La spé alternative : « Frontstabbing » 8. Rotation optimisée pour le leveling 9. Stats conseillées pour le leveling 10. Liste des meilleures épées 11. Liste des meilleures dagues

Once WoW Classic Launches As Appointed, New WoW Currency Just Like WOW Gold Must Be Provided For Almost Anything Including Exchange WoW Items. Exactly, We MMOAH, A Platform Owning Hundreds Of MMO Game Currency Including The Coming World Of Warcraft Classic Gold Keeping Up To Date And Satisfying-Full Inventory, Have Been Selling Game Currency For Several Years To Worldwide Clients, We'll Provide 100% Secure Online Payment System, Fast Delivery And Cheapest Prices Even 100% Refund With NO.1 Reputation Checked On Trustpilot, Ownedcore And Epicnpc Reviews. Now, We Start To Accept WoW Classic Gold Quick Order, Don't Delay Any Longer, Hope A Joyful Trading.


To me, certain character limits tend to be problematic not because of the length of actual content, but because of formatting tags and embedding taking up a lot of characters. This is something I experience on most of websites, not just this one, but the most aggravating issue over here is linking to user profiiles and other sources of strategies, which could be alleviated with internalisation of link paths and @mentions.
Nov 11 New players welcome discord all new players and old players are welcome to join my server, we have been playing for awhile we can assist you with ur questions! 6300 30 posts 1 sec ago https://discord.gg/CNU53ju basicly made it so people can talk/make friends while playing any game, has 50+ people in the server, most people are on moonguard playing wow. this is a friendly server, we dont allow bullying! We prefer everyone to put eachother up instead of down. We have a suggestion box! and a music bot :) i am trying to get more people into the server so we can have events like stand up comedy. custom emojis available you just gotta send them to admin (Me) also looking for server mods to manage the server/improve it when im not around.Tenzo0 Nov 11

The leveling guides on my site are essentially speed leveling guides.  My leveling guides are the same guides I use myself to speedrun to 60 on new servers to get 60 server first.  I list many occasions where I tell the player to "die on purpose" to go faster.  I tell the player to skip certain quests, because some quests are just not worth the time/XP.  I list tricks and shortcuts to go faster so you can reach level 60 much quicker.  I am still constantly going through them over and over again perfecting the guides to make them faster and easier to follow.  For the most part, the guide can be followed without the need from other player's help, as the whole guide was made from a solo run anyways.  Although I do list quests that can optionally be done if you have a group.
Kaivax, a WoW forum community manager, revealed that WoW Classic's class design, battleground mechanics and stats on existing items will be set to their 1.12 state, despite the game releasing content that expands beyond that. This removes "progressive itemization," so if the stats on a specific piece of equipment was changed during the original updates, that won't take effect in this version.
Players will start from level 1 and will progress through level 60 with real, Blizzlike x1 rates. Old PvP battlegrounds are: Warsong Gulch, Arathi Basin and the famous 40vs40 players Alterac Valley where battles were known to last more than 24 hours. 20 and 40 man raids will be available for Molten Core, Zul Gurub, Blackwing Lair, Ahn'Qiraj 20 & 40 and the original Naxxramas raid in the Eastern Plaguelands.
To actually get access to the beta, which has already started and continue to add more players, you need to sign up via your Blizzard account management page. Under Games & Subscriptions, scroll down to Beta Access and visit the Beta Profile Settings page. Once there, you’ll see a grid of available betas you can opt into. Once you’ve checked WoW Classic, hit Update Preferences and you’re set.
After choosing a race, class and customizing the look of your character, you will spawn in your race's starting zone, usually within a small settlement. Typically, these beginning areas are designed to get you to around level 10 before you leave and move on to the next zone. Right away, you will notice that some NPCs have a yellow exclamation mark () over their head. These symbols will also display on the mini map in the top-right corner of the screen if you are close to them. Talking with these NPCs will allow you to read and accept a quest they have for you. The objectives and status of this quest can be checked at any time by opening the quest log (L). Once you have completed the objectives for said quest, you can return to the NPC (or possibly a different one) to turn in the quest. The NPC whom you need to turn a quest into will have a yellow question mark () over their head. As you complete quests and your character gains levels, always be on the lookout for new quests being offered by NPCs.
The original World of Warcraft was released in 2004, and World of Warcraft Classic aims to recreate the state of the MMORPG before its first expansion, The Burning Crusade, was rolled out in January 2007. Previously, players looking for a “vanilla” version of the game were only able to experience it on custom servers such as Nostalrius, which Blizzard shut down in 2016 to protect its intellectual property.

I hate to be the one to say this, but let’s face it: we’re not little kids any more. Even for those of us who played Vanilla when they were well into their adult years will have gotten 14 years older, 14 years wiser, and up to 14 years more experienced with video games. What does that mean for Classic WoW? Well for starters, the grand majority of people who are interested in Classic will now have full time jobs. Some might have families and kids they didn’t have before. Basically, WoW Classic won’t be a big of a chunk in people’s lives as it was back then. Considering how much time you will really need to put into Classic WoW to enjoy everything it has to offer, that might be an issue. Stringing together 40-odd people to storm Blackwing Lair might be significantly more difficult now than it was back then. However, due to the issues I talked about in the paragraph above, it might not need to be the long, arduous hours that many people put into Vanilla raiding. With the right preparation and knowledge, raids in Classic will most likely take considerably less time to complete than they did in Vanilla, which will hopefully counteract the fact that the majority of players will have less overall time and fewer long chunks of time to play. 6. Conclusion In essence, the game itself might not be changing from Vanilla to Classic WoW, but the knowledge and mindset of the players of the game will considerably change the way the game feels. Everyone probably figures that there won’t be that same sense of wonder that Vanilla WoW brought so long ago, and that’s true. Nostalgia can only carry Classic WoW so far. Thankfully, I believe that there is some truly solid game design inVanilla WoW, and the fact that Blizzard have doubled down on creating a verbatim experience for Classic WoW is something that people have been adamant about since the day they announced its release. Only time will tell if ClassicWoW truly is the thing people have been wanting, or whether the new CEO ofBlizzard Jay Allen Brack was right – we thought we wanted it, but we didn’t.
Mar 15, 2017 RAF & Recruitment Does NOT Belong Here (FAQ) I figured I'd nip this in the bud before it starts up in the new forum. Original post is copied from Munbar of Wyrmrest Accord, but I've expanded it. Q. My new RAF thread keeps getting locked, why? A. The New Player Help and Guides forum is no longer being used for RAF. Q. Why did my reroll/leveling partner post get deleted or moved? A. Because rerolls and "LF leveling partner" posts are deemed recruitment threads, and recruitment threads do not belong here. They belong in the realm forums or the guild recruitment forums. Q. But I'm not recruiting! A. In the eyes of the moderators, yes, you are. You're recruiting someone to reroll on a server or join you for leveling or meet in-game. Hence why the threads will be locked/deleted or moved to the appropriate forum. Posting on a realm forum has a better local audience for leveling partners anyway. Blue post: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3123312367#7 ... ... Another blue post: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2794651592#6 ... As one of our regulars Monmon so eloquently put it: ... Q. Where do I go to post my RAF or recruitment thread? A. You should head to either the realm forum of the realm you are planning on finding someone to RAF, or the guild recruitment forum on your faction. If you need something like charter signatures or other "local" hookups, go to your server forum. Q. But I'm on a trial account and can't post there! A. Cry me a river. You're still not allowed to post it here. Get an actual friend to recruit you rather than fishing for a stranger on the forums. Q. Why did they stop using the New Player Help and Guides forum? A. The RAF threads were reproducing so quickly that the forum was getting bogged down by the reposters and spam, detracting from the forum's original purpose, which is helping newbies with their WoW questions. RAF does -not- help new players, as the vast majority of RATS (recruit a total stranger) hookups fall through once the trial account is made, or the new player is left with little experience, gold, and the supposed "forum friend" ditches them readily. The forum regulars went on a crusade against the RAF spam, and we finally got Blizzard's attention. The mods have been quickly removing/locking the RATS threads, keeping the forum happy and clean. Q. What action will be taken against me if I keep posting in the New Player Help and Guides forum? A. Your forum account will likely be banned after repeatedly posting the same thread after it has been locked/deleted. Q. Where should I go to suggest a RAF forum? A. Head to the Website Feature Suggestion forum. (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/1025939/) Q. Can I post in the General forum about RAF? A. As of now, this has been undecided, yet some people have been. It is recommended to go to the guild recruitment forum or realm forum. Q. When will a RAF forum or sticky be made? A. As of now Blizzard is not planning on making an RAF forum or stick. If you continue to suggest it in the Website Suggestions forum, this might change. Thank you for taking your time to read this, please go to the suggested forum stated above before posting your RAF and recruitment threads.Icedragon89 Mar 15, 2017
Jul 4 BEWARE OF KEYLOGGERS! Don't follow that link! Version 2.0 added updates, new information, and cleaned up the format. Transferred from the Old Welcome to WoW forum. -Tera/Baloo I figured that a thread alerting new forum goers of our incessant keylogger issues right off the bat would be best suited in the Welcome/Beginners forum....so here goes... What is a Keylogger? How does it work? and why do I care? The World of Warcraft forums are a good place to come if you need information about your class, spec, profession or just have questions about the game in general. Unfortunately, a long with the good information that can be found here, there are also "people" who post links to websites that may imitate a legitimate WoW related website, but actually have a hidden program that gets installed on your computer in the background, without your knowledge. These small programs or scripts are used to record any keystrokes that you make on the keyboard, and secretly send those recorded keystrokes to a person who will then use that information to gain illegal access to your WoW account, bank account, or any other sensitive information. People who have their accounts "hacked" in this manner, will find that when they log on to their characters they have been stripped of any and all gear, crafting materials, Bank contents liquidated, and all of their gold gone. The violated account will then be used to re-post more links to keylogger websites on the official WoW forums in an effort to perpetuate the problem. Eventually the account will be left with nothing more than naked toons, and in some cases the characters are deleted as well once the account has been banned from posting in the forums by the Blizzard Moderators. These hidden programs or scripts can be embedded, actually hidden inside the data of other types of files such as Pictures, movies, flash objects or malicious web pages. How do I know if a link is a Keylogger or not? Well, after you have seen a few of them, you start to notice a few different things that they all seem to have in common. First, most of the time keyloggers are some random topic or a link to some picture or web page that has NOTHING to do with WoW or the topic in which the link is posted. These links are usually accompanied by some random one line comment that makes little or no sense. Also most of the time these links are Chinese specific domains, such as: somedomain dot "cn". An example might look like: > "It's too good to be true!" (followed by a link to a picture) > "Naked woman caught by satellite!" (followed by a link to a picture or video, and a statement such as:"Don't be so relaxed while you are taking the sun naked in the garden of your house... Big brother could be watching you!!!)" > "NERF INC!" (followed by a link to a picture) > "Just Beautiful! (followed by a link to a picture) >"Huge Alliance raid on Halaa (w/ pics)" (with several links to pictures)** (See note below) >"Shapeshifting proposals (Again, with pics)" (with several links to pictures)** >"Hey Kalgan, we're fine!" (With links to several .php documents, Kalgan is/was a WoW Developer) >"#%!#!!ex Toy" (Links to videos embedded in PHP scripts, with a story about a "neglected" girlfriend) Also, some examples of websites that seem to be posted a bunch "look" like they are WOW related websites, but upon closer inspection they are actually not legit: -warldofwarcraft -worldofworceaft - mmosgame - warcraftmoviies (note the double "ii" in movies) - warcraftm0vies (note the Zero in place of an "o") ** "warcraftmovies" IS a legitimate website ** **Note** It seems that whoever is posting the Key Loggers has gotten a bit less lazy and actually put some scheme together that looks like a legit post. These posts are usually about some "proposal/suggestion or bug fix (note:these issues should only be reported in the Suggestions or Bug Reports forums, NOT in the Welcome/Beginners forum, so that's your first clue.)" or of a raid on a major city. Most recently is a raid on Halaa (the PVP objective in Nagrand, Outland), with several links to pictures of their "event or evidence". These links are hostile and will infect your system. If someone is legitimately posting up pictures of a raid, they will be active on the forums and will usually be willing to speak with you about the link in question, whereas a keylogger almost certainly won't respond.Baloo129 Jul 4
Brack played every Blizzard game, but World of Warcraft will always be closest to his heart. World of Warcraft changed Blizzard. When the game launched back in 2004, the company had 300 employees. Currently, they have 4,300 employees. They've got more games that they're working on now than at any other time in the history of Blizzard. Not every game released by Blizzard needs to cater to everyone. It's fine if you don't like a certain game. Mobile is a platform on its own, similar to consoles or PC. The games they're developing for mobile are going to provide an authentic experience, but mobile titles aren't trying to replicate PC experience. Nintendo has been a great partner and they are happy with how the Diablo III panned out. Switch has some unique properties that consoles don't have. From a player perspective, Brack's proud of his guild downing Ragnaros back in Vanilla. Kael'thas was also a hard boss during the Burning Crusade, so defeating him was also considered a feat for the President of Blizzard. Doing the Argus patch in Legion was quite the challenge. Mists of Pandaria was the most misunderstood expansion. They've been experimenting for 15 years with content schedule for the game and figured out that the two-year expansion cycle with 3 major patches is the right thing. They were thinking about making Argus an entire expansion, but ended up not doing so.
Wait, /sit to trigger crits is p-server thing? I distinctly remember people saying that if you sit, you will be crit when I played 1.12 Vanilla. On top of that - there’s that pally that one shot Kazzak in early Vanilla because he stacked a shitload of reckoning when it didn’t have a limit - it’s not inconceivable that he did it without /sit to trigger crits, but it would take him so, SO long to do that without /sit.
Nov 15 4 Garrison Mounts You Can get with ease Hi guys, I decided to make a video about the Garrison Invasion mounts and how you can get them. The percentage of mount drops are pretty high, so if you want to learn more check out this video I made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpITHj8d16w&t=10s With that same character, I made another guide about what buildings I choose and routes I take to make gold using a Draenor Garrison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8BcMEBpZ6o&t=19s Let me know what you think!Druidria0 Nov 15
But how do you proportionally resize the swing? Even if you did, it wouldn’t give you the same type of joy as when you were a kid, because you have grown up and changed. Even if that wasn’t the case for you, you have to consider that the swing has become a place that is sacred for many other adults. When they visit, they aren’t visiting to try out the new adult-swing. They want to try the old swing. The one that brings back the joyful memories of distant past. They know that the experience isn’t the same, but if they close their eyes ... even for a brief moment ... they just might get that nostalgic thrill that brings them back to a time where things seemed so much simpler.
To get back to Classic for a bit, this is what I think is happening. Players who prefer the old ways (and full disclosure, I'd count myself among them, but to a smaller degree than most) complain/talk about the negative sides of modern WoW and Battle for Azeroth in general. While they do this they also talk about how things were better before and often mention Vanilla as a reference point. People who enjoy BfA now feel attacked by this and so they retaliate. Hence, liking Classic means you either have nostalgia goggles on or have no idea what you're talking about and will hate the same things you say you want 2 weeks after you start playing it. It's an amazing thing, where literally each side is doing to the other what they feel is being (wrongly) done to them. I feel like writing this is the most redundant thing I've ever done, and yet I also feel that it needs to be said, because it seems some people just don't get what they're doing, or at least I hope they don't (some do and are doing it on purpose but there's trolls everywhere so there's no point in even discussing them).
The quickest way to level up is to travel through the game's zones, completing all the quests you encounter along the way. Completing quests grants you Experience points, which will slowly fill in your experience bar with blue or purple. When the bar fills, you reach the next level. Alternatively, you could choose to run Dungeons or Battlegrounds, which are not covered in this beginner's guide.
2. the only gear that was easily attainable sort of was the old level 60 pvp sets. if the classic servers stay locked in progression of any expansions then grinding the PvP gear for both pvp and raiding would be the top choice in casual play. "IF" they implement the LFG and LFR tools for the 16-40 man raids, heh it would be very interesting, otherwise get use to Trade chat being filled with PuG raid groups looking for people, because that was the norm back in the day.
Nov 9 How to start getting legion artifact weapon? I have no idea where to begin or what the quest line is called. EDIT: I got the fangs of the ashamane and continued 50 quests ahead and I have STILL not found any options on changing my feral form with the weapon equipped. EDIT AgaIN: Okay apparently i'm glitched because i watched a youtube video and you're supposed to get the first skin by default simply for equipping the fangs immediately after turning in the quest. Any suggestions of fixing this annoying glitch? EDIT: I FIXED IT! i had to click a locked skin option... then clock back to the default which was already highlighted... "click the wrong thing before the right thing will work"Daunt5 Nov 9
In the end, while it may be a huge cop-out, it really does come down to personal preference. Some people will simply not be able to handle the huge downtime between pulls, not being able to buy a new skill rank because you spent all your money on food and drinks (mages were popular for a reason back then), the very slow pace of leveling, and a whole lot more frustrations and not user-friendly features. On the other hand, the experience really is significantly different enough from modern WoW that it does feel enough like a "new" game, or at least a new and different expansion. An expansion that has many more differences than the last 3 or so, something that's both new and old and familiar. And, yes, it also offers massive quantities of nostalgia for those of us that played Vanilla, but what's so wrong about that?
The closed beta for Blizzard’s upcoming World of Warcraft vanilla server option launched on May 15th, and Blizzard has now listed some of the apparent issues that the development team is aware of, including class and combat related issues alongside missing textures and more. Blizzard mentions that this list is not a complete depiction of what they’re aware of, but a sampling of issues they believe players may encounter on regular basis.
Earlier this week, Blizzard finally announced a release date for World of Warcraft Classic, a barebones re-release of World of Warcraft long before it was filled with countless expansions. WoW Classic promises a pure, vanilla experience, one that a portion of the World of Warcraft playerbase has been chasing through unsanctioned vanilla servers stripped of various expansions. The game releases on August 27, which, while still a few months away, is still somewhat exciting, seeing as now most fans have an actual date to look forward to.
Only really to expand on Gráinne's comment as regards the 'collecting' and 'roster development' sections - which are, as said 'distinct' although they are intrinsically linked - I would like to point you in the direction of the in-game Achievements > Battle Pets > Collect tab. There are a series of achievements called Raiding With Leashes, pretty much all of which can be completed via the auction house - if you have the gold/inclination - or by completing old raids.
I'm happy to see them really committing to this. I didn't think I would be all that interested, but I will sure give it a go. Personally I wouldn't mind quality of life improvements and most of my friend don't really care for a 100% authentic vanilla experience but they want the old zones and world, a game world pre-Cataclysm but have no requirement for it being "authentic" to World of Warcraft Patch 1.12.2.
When hovering over an ability, the tooltip will tell you whether or not that attack is weak or strong against certain pet types. Additionally, you can hover over the opposing team's pets and view their attacks during combat. This will be important since it’s a good idea to pit a pet that's strong against the opponent's pet who's vulnerable to that type.
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