Nov 5 Standard Scope for Selfie Camera? Hey guys I'm doing the quest where you make a selfie camera and got 2 of 3 materials but am lacking a standard scope. Anyone know an easy way to get one? I checked the AH and it's going for 950g in Area 52 which is insane lol, surely it's not that rare or something if a quest needs it. Thanks!Healingchad7 Nov 5
FYI: If you’re returning to WoW after an extended absence prior to patch 5.0.1, it’s possible that you’ll have more than the maximum pet limit and/or more than 3 of a kind. However, this will be the only time that you’re allowed to surpass these limits. You will have to pare down your collection, eliminating your duplicates, in order to add new pets.
World of Warcraft: Classic might be just around the corner, so it’s about time to start preparing. We’ve already published a class selection guide, and today we’re focusing on the most important resource of the game, of course, it is gold. Many players who played World of Warcraft back in the day might remember the times when you needed to count every spent penny and the times when gold farmers roamed the Azeroth on their super expensive epic mounts. In vanilla WoW, gold was everything. And we’re here to help you save as much of it as possible. So, without further due, let’s dive in our World of Warcraft: Classic gold making guide.
When it comes to levelling the Priest Class from 1-60 fast, XP grinding locations is only half the battle. You will need to make sure your weapon does enough DPS so that you can clear these mobs fast enough, it should also be noted that monster should be around your level to make sure to gain the 100% XP Reward. The Level your character should be before you start that specific location will be indicated to left in a Blue Color for Alliance [Lvl 35-39] and the Orange Color for Horde [Lvl 35-39]. The Mobs you are looking for in that specific area names are Bolded [Mob Name].
Mar 15, 2017 RAF & Recruitment Does NOT Belong Here (FAQ) I figured I'd nip this in the bud before it starts up in the new forum. Original post is copied from Munbar of Wyrmrest Accord, but I've expanded it. Q. My new RAF thread keeps getting locked, why? A. The New Player Help and Guides forum is no longer being used for RAF. Q. Why did my reroll/leveling partner post get deleted or moved? A. Because rerolls and "LF leveling partner" posts are deemed recruitment threads, and recruitment threads do not belong here. They belong in the realm forums or the guild recruitment forums. Q. But I'm not recruiting! A. In the eyes of the moderators, yes, you are. You're recruiting someone to reroll on a server or join you for leveling or meet in-game. Hence why the threads will be locked/deleted or moved to the appropriate forum. Posting on a realm forum has a better local audience for leveling partners anyway. Blue post: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3123312367#7 ... ... Another blue post: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2794651592#6 ... As one of our regulars Monmon so eloquently put it: ... Q. Where do I go to post my RAF or recruitment thread? A. You should head to either the realm forum of the realm you are planning on finding someone to RAF, or the guild recruitment forum on your faction. If you need something like charter signatures or other "local" hookups, go to your server forum. Q. But I'm on a trial account and can't post there! A. Cry me a river. You're still not allowed to post it here. Get an actual friend to recruit you rather than fishing for a stranger on the forums. Q. Why did they stop using the New Player Help and Guides forum? A. The RAF threads were reproducing so quickly that the forum was getting bogged down by the reposters and spam, detracting from the forum's original purpose, which is helping newbies with their WoW questions. RAF does -not- help new players, as the vast majority of RATS (recruit a total stranger) hookups fall through once the trial account is made, or the new player is left with little experience, gold, and the supposed "forum friend" ditches them readily. The forum regulars went on a crusade against the RAF spam, and we finally got Blizzard's attention. The mods have been quickly removing/locking the RATS threads, keeping the forum happy and clean. Q. What action will be taken against me if I keep posting in the New Player Help and Guides forum? A. Your forum account will likely be banned after repeatedly posting the same thread after it has been locked/deleted. Q. Where should I go to suggest a RAF forum? A. Head to the Website Feature Suggestion forum. (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/1025939/) Q. Can I post in the General forum about RAF? A. As of now, this has been undecided, yet some people have been. It is recommended to go to the guild recruitment forum or realm forum. Q. When will a RAF forum or sticky be made? A. As of now Blizzard is not planning on making an RAF forum or stick. If you continue to suggest it in the Website Suggestions forum, this might change. Thank you for taking your time to read this, please go to the suggested forum stated above before posting your RAF and recruitment threads.Icedragon89 Mar 15, 2017
Nov 15 new player Hi, I started the game not long ago... questing has been fun but I must say it is a bit lonely running around in a massive map with no other players around. Is it only because no one is in the starting zone any more and the place will be more populated as I go to higher level zones? (This is coming from a Destiny player and basically every zone I go there are other players and most time at least if you emote at someone random they emote back... but in WoW it just doesn't feel social at all...) Also, I have just learned to ride a mount... is there free mounts that I can perhaps farm from enemies or do I just have to buy them from the trainer? Sorry for sounding cheap but I am not exactly swimming in gold... yet? Finally... dungeons... is it better if I start running dungeons now just to familiarize with group play in WoW or should I just keep on solo questing? I'm just worried that people will just leave the instance as soon as I say I'm new.. should I find a guild and run dungeons as a pre-made team just so I can actually learn from the experience? Otherwise I imagine people just speedrun the dungeons and I'll just end up getting completely lost... Sorry for having so many questions... there is so much to learn in this game!Wackyweasel4 Nov 15
The Horde levels 50-60 guide has been rewritten and revamped.  My 1-60 Horde leveling guide is now completely updated for the 1.12 Drums of War patch.  As you can see it is about 15% larger than the 40-50 guide (single largest guide page yet).  There is also a lot of route changes.  I moved the entire Silithus section from level 55 to level 58, which allowed me to include a lot more quests for that zone.  There is also a lot of other improvement to the route, including adding a lot more quests into the guide, mostly from Moonglade, Silithus and Eastern Plaguelands.  This will make the final level 59 grind much shorter.
Other methods have been discussed. For example, mods could be crippled. DBM didn't exist back then, and the other boss that did that I don't remember the name of, didn't do as much back then as DBM does now. If our goal is to recreate the experience as it was, then obviously not having DBM would be a reasonable way to accomplish that. DBM simply existing, makes the game today easier than it was. So disallow it. Again, this is completely consistent with the spirit of vanilla. Remember one-button-decursing? That was nerfed. They crippled the capabilities of the modding API to disallow that because it made the game too easy. So what if they cripple it a little bit more to once again make the game less easy?
Mar 15, 2017 RAF & Recruitment Does NOT Belong Here (FAQ) I figured I'd nip this in the bud before it starts up in the new forum. Original post is copied from Munbar of Wyrmrest Accord, but I've expanded it. Q. My new RAF thread keeps getting locked, why? A. The New Player Help and Guides forum is no longer being used for RAF. Q. Why did my reroll/leveling partner post get deleted or moved? A. Because rerolls and "LF leveling partner" posts are deemed recruitment threads, and recruitment threads do not belong here. They belong in the realm forums or the guild recruitment forums. Q. But I'm not recruiting! A. In the eyes of the moderators, yes, you are. You're recruiting someone to reroll on a server or join you for leveling or meet in-game. Hence why the threads will be locked/deleted or moved to the appropriate forum. Posting on a realm forum has a better local audience for leveling partners anyway. Blue post: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3123312367#7 ... ... Another blue post: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2794651592#6 ... As one of our regulars Monmon so eloquently put it: ... Q. Where do I go to post my RAF or recruitment thread? A. You should head to either the realm forum of the realm you are planning on finding someone to RAF, or the guild recruitment forum on your faction. If you need something like charter signatures or other "local" hookups, go to your server forum. Q. But I'm on a trial account and can't post there! A. Cry me a river. You're still not allowed to post it here. Get an actual friend to recruit you rather than fishing for a stranger on the forums. Q. Why did they stop using the New Player Help and Guides forum? A. The RAF threads were reproducing so quickly that the forum was getting bogged down by the reposters and spam, detracting from the forum's original purpose, which is helping newbies with their WoW questions. RAF does -not- help new players, as the vast majority of RATS (recruit a total stranger) hookups fall through once the trial account is made, or the new player is left with little experience, gold, and the supposed "forum friend" ditches them readily. The forum regulars went on a crusade against the RAF spam, and we finally got Blizzard's attention. The mods have been quickly removing/locking the RATS threads, keeping the forum happy and clean. Q. What action will be taken against me if I keep posting in the New Player Help and Guides forum? A. Your forum account will likely be banned after repeatedly posting the same thread after it has been locked/deleted. Q. Where should I go to suggest a RAF forum? A. Head to the Website Feature Suggestion forum. (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/1025939/) Q. Can I post in the General forum about RAF? A. As of now, this has been undecided, yet some people have been. It is recommended to go to the guild recruitment forum or realm forum. Q. When will a RAF forum or sticky be made? A. As of now Blizzard is not planning on making an RAF forum or stick. If you continue to suggest it in the Website Suggestions forum, this might change. Thank you for taking your time to read this, please go to the suggested forum stated above before posting your RAF and recruitment threads.Icedragon89 Mar 15, 2017
Once WoW Classic Launches As Appointed, New WoW Currency Just Like WOW Gold Must Be Provided For Almost Anything Including Exchange WoW Items. Exactly, We MMOAH, A Platform Owning Hundreds Of MMO Game Currency Including The Coming World Of Warcraft Classic Gold Keeping Up To Date And Satisfying-Full Inventory, Have Been Selling Game Currency For Several Years To Worldwide Clients, We'll Provide 100% Secure Online Payment System, Fast Delivery And Cheapest Prices Even 100% Refund With NO.1 Reputation Checked On Trustpilot, Ownedcore And Epicnpc Reviews. Now, We Start To Accept WoW Classic Gold Quick Order, Don't Delay Any Longer, Hope A Joyful Trading.
Furthermore, we highly recommend you plan in advance regarding the class that you want to play. In the Classic WoW, there were no class specs. Every talent point spent couldn’t be changed without first resetting all of them and the talent point reset was a costly practice. If you already know what you want to play as in the end game – try to develop your talent tree accordingly. This way you’ll be able to save a lot of gold in advance.
Combat is turn-based and there is no time limit on each round in a PVE Pet Battle. You can take your time to determine which spell to use next. Some pet abilities have multiple round cooldowns, while others can do extra damage if certain conditions are met. Be creative and have fun testing which combination of attacks works best against different wild pets!
This is another one that will most likely be a boon rather than a bane to the player base, though time will tell just how 14years of experience will affect the economy of Classic WoW. There has been no concrete word on just how AddOns will work in Classic, but if the infrastructure of the game works the same as it does in retail, there is a good chance that most of the mods that work in retail will work in Classic. This means that quite a few people will be running around with a whole host of gathering, crafting, auctioning, and gold making mods. Now, those mods did exist back in Vanilla, but not in the same way they do now, and not as many people had them back then as will in Classic. This will drastically affect how effective the auction house will be, and hopefully will affect the economy as a whole in a positive way. Another thing that will most likely see a large increase in popularity is carry runs. These have steadily grown in popularity since Vanilla, and rest assured with the old 40 man raid size that there will be quite a few “Molten Core full carry master loot ON PST for prices GOLD ONLY” being spammed in trade chat. Whether tokens will be available in Classic has yet to be discussed, but if so it will have an enormous impact on the economy of Classic. This, in addition to the differences I will cover in the next section, will have a pretty large impact on the endgame of WoW Classic.
This tutorial will ensure that the beginning of your journey will be a smooth one. It provides information that will help you find your way when you get lost, as well as tips that will offer guidance and advice as you march on towards greatness. It is not an exhaustive guide, however; it neither can nor wants to unveil every secret of Azeroth to you. That glorious task is left up to you as you explore the world yourself. Think of this guide as a touchstone for your early adventures: enough to get started, but too little to spoil any of the awesome surprises that await you in Azeroth.
Only really to expand on Gráinne's comment as regards the 'collecting' and 'roster development' sections - which are, as said 'distinct' although they are intrinsically linked - I would like to point you in the direction of the in-game Achievements > Battle Pets > Collect tab. There are a series of achievements called Raiding With Leashes, pretty much all of which can be completed via the auction house - if you have the gold/inclination - or by completing old raids.

I consider myself a purist in that I would prefer classic to be released as close as possible to the original. Where that is on the spectrum of patch content will be up to blizz. I'm also not vane enough to believe that any single state of the game is the "Ideal" location we should be aiming for. There is common ground that we can agree on, and I would welcome more than a few changes as long as they are made in the spirit of keeping classic on the vanilla rails.


Some even more advanced gold makers might also attempt to monopolize the market. It’s fairly easy if you have quite a bit of gold – just buy out every single item on which you want to have a monopoly on and then reintroduce it to the auction house with your new (and higher) price. However, it’s worth mentioning that monopolization tactic is risky business practice. But where’s high risk – there’s high profit.


If you’re eager to claim your character name in WoW Classic, take note: we’ll be opening character creation on Tuesday, August 13.** Players with an active subscription or game time on their account will be able to create up to three characters per World of Warcraft account. We’ll have more information on realm names closer to launch, but rest assured—you’ll have plenty of time to figure out your plans for realm domination!
Nov 10 well i tryed i was hoping to comeback to wow after being away since cat but my only real interest was pvp. seeing the state its in now i can see it's not worth bothering with and i feel i've given it enough time. the only choices i see for pvp is to twink so i can beat on kittens (cause i'm so 1337) or be so under powered i'm useless as i watch the twinks decimate my team. i didn't return for the american gladiator experience. it's a shame i missed legion i feel i would have like it better.Piale5 Nov 10
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I am currently working full time on my Vanilla WoW leveling guides.  Soon there will be a 1-60 speed leveling guide for Alliance, along with in-game guide versions available for my members area.  As of right now, there is no members area, but if you would like to show support for my efforts into this project, you can simply donate to me via Patreon if you like (you will get some cool rewards in return).  Or you can donate directly with PayPal if you like.  All donations are highly appreciated and they will only motivate me more to continue making the best vanilla WoW leveling guides on the web.

The original WoW was painful. Mobs took forever to die; one additional enemy in a fight was a pain, two probably meant death. There was a ton of running. Most buffs lasted two minutes, many took reagents, abilities were trained and often out of reach if you lacked the necessary gold. Warlocks had to farm shards, hunters had to carry ammo -- even my warrior did, since in vanilla WoW she can carry a bow and fire arrows herself.


This is definitely why we do a beta test. We can also do things like reset the realm at a busy time like 4:30pm PDT to try and find the source of a certain issue where a crocolisk is losing it’s brain due to how multiple processes are interacting and mirroring code to form a cohesive world. There were similar types of issues like this back in 2004 but we wanted to try and resolve this one before the weekend for the folks who are testing.
Step-by-step class guides are on the way!  The 1-12 Mulgore Guide is the first guide to get all the individual class steps.  At the top of the guide, simply select which class you are playing and the page will dynamically update all the steps in the guide for that class (both text and images).  The rest of the guides will be slowly updated overtime to include all the class steps, but you can see how it's going to work with the 1-12 Mulgore.  I want to thank crazyK and his Placeholderguild for helping me out with the individual class content.  They are allowing me to get the 1-60 Alliance guide done while also getting all the class steps done at the same time, so everything can be ready for Classic launch (hopefully).
The main topic for Classic at the moment would be whether the game is actually harder or just has more redundant activities you have to do before doing the stuff that's really fun. This is actually a good discussion to have, and not just for WoW, but gaming in general. The main sticking point for now, as most people are on (relatively) low levels is the breaks between killing mobs, especially for mana users. In the beginning it's actually refreshing having to think about what you can and can't pull, not just running into a bunch of mobs and killing them in *insert current optimal time to kill Blizzard determined is the most fun*. The food/drink breaks after a few (or even one) mobs provide time to actually look around the scenery and the mobs you're facing, and while there isn't much strategy involved at these levels, you still at least pretend to plan out how you're going to get to that quest mob without being killed by the 4 random ones surrounding them. Not being able to pull whatever mob you want, and actually having to check what mobs are there when you don't have interrupts yet (casters tend to be a nightmare) is definitely more difficult in a real way than what we have today. As a caster, having to actually think about which spells to use based on mana cost (and perhaps even using lower ranked ones) is definitely more difficult and requires more engagement with your character than we have in modern WoW.
Mar 15, 2017 RAF & Recruitment Does NOT Belong Here (FAQ) I figured I'd nip this in the bud before it starts up in the new forum. Original post is copied from Munbar of Wyrmrest Accord, but I've expanded it. Q. My new RAF thread keeps getting locked, why? A. The New Player Help and Guides forum is no longer being used for RAF. Q. Why did my reroll/leveling partner post get deleted or moved? A. Because rerolls and "LF leveling partner" posts are deemed recruitment threads, and recruitment threads do not belong here. They belong in the realm forums or the guild recruitment forums. Q. But I'm not recruiting! A. In the eyes of the moderators, yes, you are. You're recruiting someone to reroll on a server or join you for leveling or meet in-game. Hence why the threads will be locked/deleted or moved to the appropriate forum. Posting on a realm forum has a better local audience for leveling partners anyway. Blue post: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3123312367#7 ... ... Another blue post: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2794651592#6 ... As one of our regulars Monmon so eloquently put it: ... Q. Where do I go to post my RAF or recruitment thread? A. You should head to either the realm forum of the realm you are planning on finding someone to RAF, or the guild recruitment forum on your faction. If you need something like charter signatures or other "local" hookups, go to your server forum. Q. But I'm on a trial account and can't post there! A. Cry me a river. You're still not allowed to post it here. Get an actual friend to recruit you rather than fishing for a stranger on the forums. Q. Why did they stop using the New Player Help and Guides forum? A. The RAF threads were reproducing so quickly that the forum was getting bogged down by the reposters and spam, detracting from the forum's original purpose, which is helping newbies with their WoW questions. RAF does -not- help new players, as the vast majority of RATS (recruit a total stranger) hookups fall through once the trial account is made, or the new player is left with little experience, gold, and the supposed "forum friend" ditches them readily. The forum regulars went on a crusade against the RAF spam, and we finally got Blizzard's attention. The mods have been quickly removing/locking the RATS threads, keeping the forum happy and clean. Q. What action will be taken against me if I keep posting in the New Player Help and Guides forum? A. Your forum account will likely be banned after repeatedly posting the same thread after it has been locked/deleted. Q. Where should I go to suggest a RAF forum? A. Head to the Website Feature Suggestion forum. (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/1025939/) Q. Can I post in the General forum about RAF? A. As of now, this has been undecided, yet some people have been. It is recommended to go to the guild recruitment forum or realm forum. Q. When will a RAF forum or sticky be made? A. As of now Blizzard is not planning on making an RAF forum or stick. If you continue to suggest it in the Website Suggestions forum, this might change. Thank you for taking your time to read this, please go to the suggested forum stated above before posting your RAF and recruitment threads.Icedragon89 Mar 15, 2017

Raiditem owns a top-class raid team who has over 10 years' experience of helping WoW gamers get all the WoW items they want. At Blizzcon 2017 Blizzard unveiled their plan on the development of WoW classic vanilla server, check out the official announcement video on YouTube for more details. As the most trustworthy site, raiditem.com will offer possibly the cheapest WOW Classic items including WoW Vanilla server gold, WoW Classic mounts, WoW legacy servers boe items, and other WoW Classic server service once the Vanilla WoW server officially releases.
Kaivax, a WoW forum community manager, revealed that WoW Classic's class design, battleground mechanics and stats on existing items will be set to their 1.12 state, despite the game releasing content that expands beyond that. This removes "progressive itemization," so if the stats on a specific piece of equipment was changed during the original updates, that won't take effect in this version.

With the Classic beta now out it seems every related article somehow manages to spark the eternal war of "Vanilla was the best WoW sucks now" and "lol nostalgia goggles, Vanilla sucked, enjoy your two weeks of Classic". I have to say, even though I understand the principles behind the battle and the reasons people behave and talk this way... I actually REALLY don't get it on a deeper level.
When you decide to Buy World of Warcraft Classic Gold, the main factors you will consider are price, trust and speed. mmoko has many years of experience in the field of game goods sales, providing excellent pre-sales and after-sales services for more than 50,000 customers. Our customer service staff and game traders are online 24 hours a day. If you have any problems, please feel free to contact us. Our goal is to do our best to meet the needs of our customers.
Nov 7 Game buying guide for confused ppl like me For those of you who were confused as i was, this is about buying the game and what you get so for 15$ subscription - you get all past expansion and 1 month of game time for battle for azeroth (49.99$) - you get the newest expansion for WoW complete collection (59.99) - Newest expansion / 1 month of game time / 110 boost(1x only) I was confused for awhile but now i know that the 49.99$ is the Worst deal ever. I am going to buy some game time for now, and jump up to the 60$ bundle later. The boost is a 60$ value / 1 month of wow 15$ value / and the expansion is a 50$. TOTAL is : 125$ value for 60$. Great deal. So the complete collection is really sweet :) Hope this helps other people. I am buying the game time today and working on this monk. Cheers.Promonk11 Nov 7
Good question. Me personally, when I use a new strat from somebody else, I always read thru the strat, and in the case I really need to level some pet, I then (likely) exclude strats that are mentioning things like “RNG”, “risk”, etc. But: I’m always happy (when using a new strat) when I see some detailed infos, so that I can estimate what is going to happen. But YMMV.
Nov 5 Yellow names I got killed by an undead character with a yellow name. I know some npcs are green and players on your side are blue. Is this an enemy player or an npc? I thought the undead and blood elves were on the same side but I think it might have been a player because he/she jumped over and over again on my corpse after I was dead. I'm really confused by this.Lithelilara12 Nov 5
They seem to have expected some things, though, see adding pets with aquatic damage (gun and ooze) aswell as a resistant cockroach to stop us from cheesing everything with elementals. Yet, a fact their damage output is low combined with shields not checking for racial damage means this mechanic prevents a lot as you mentioned. The last boss has got an ability to remove basic shields so perhaps that was not in oblivion either… unlike the reactive damage. Also, an ability that forces swap altogether with an ability which prevents from being swapped, including critters? I can't say I like it.

Instead of sharding the zones, their plan is to shard the entire continent at launch. In Classic WoW, there are no dynamic spawns and questing in starting zones would quickly become annoying, so it's understandable that the game is all but fun when there are no mobs to kill, but layering will also cause you to see new players, every time you sign in to the game, which is a clear downside of the tech. 
Instead of sharding the zones, their plan is to shard the entire continent at launch. In Classic WoW, there are no dynamic spawns and questing in starting zones would quickly become annoying, so it's understandable that the game is all but fun when there are no mobs to kill, but layering will also cause you to see new players, every time you sign in to the game, which is a clear downside of the tech.   

In OSRS, before bonds (their equivalent of tokens) were released, there was a strong gold industry, but most people who bought gold did so by buying bonds on the main game, then finding a dedicated 'swapper' who'd exchange their RS3 gold for an appropriate amount of OSRS gold (taking a cut for themselves, of course). I wonder if a similar system will pop up in classic wow
To actually get access to the beta, which has already started and continue to add more players, you need to sign up via your Blizzard account management page. Under Games & Subscriptions, scroll down to Beta Access and visit the Beta Profile Settings page. Once there, you’ll see a grid of available betas you can opt into. Once you’ve checked WoW Classic, hit Update Preferences and you’re set.
For example, the Azure Whelpling belongs to the Dragonkin family. However, it has Beast, Magic, and Elemental abilities in addition to a Dragonkin attack. Different attacks are strong and weak against different family types. Having a diverse spell selection might increase your chances of being prepared with a strong attack against an opposing team.

You are right here. The Rematch string is part of the Info box, and as such it should be parsed correctly. (The string that contains the correct and breed/damage-specific min health requirements). This should be enough, but, I think there are also folks that aren’t using Rematch. They also should know of the type-specific min health requirements. Unfortunatly the default forms of the page don’t offer any detailed entries for the min health. They only offer one entry (for all damage types), and I always put the worst-case min health there (for pets that are weak against the expected damage type)


The simple truth behind all of this bickering and squabbling is that there really isn't a bad way to enjoy a game. You like the feeling of Classic taking you back to your young(er) days and that rush of falling in love with WoW for the first time? You like the slower pace of both combat and leveling? You like that the social aspects of the game take a front seat? Good, enjoy it! You prefer modern WoW and BfA with it's tons of improvements, smoother design and more player-friendly features? Great, enjoy it! It doesn't matter whether you prefer modern WoW or Classic or WotLK or whichever your personal high-point was (it was Burning Crusade and Legion for me), you're not wrong. You literally can't be. No matter what anyone says in all these heated discussions, they care about WoW, in whatever form they prefer it. So why can't this be enough of a commonality for us to have a civil discourse?
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