Well. LFG is designed to replace blizzard's premade groups entirely just like custom raid frame addons (like grid, grid2, healbot) did towards blizzard's compact raid addon. We can actually do little customization towards Blizzard's UI unless we write our own "UI". Instead, just use LFG to create/search groups instead of blizzard's UI since it sucks.
So tonight I took the plunge and thought hey let me buy a Zygor Guides subscription to see how it is. A guide backed by a subscriber base paying for a premium experience this has to be great right? I was wrong. I tested it by loading it up on the Honorboud Rep Guide. Cool it tells me to do World Quests and Island Expeditions. So far so good but hang on... What about the Wanted Quests? Those are by far the biggest boost to reputation. It did not mention them at all. So I thought that's fine it's probably because BFA is quite new. Loaded up a leveling guide on an alt. It was a complete mess. The guide was telling me to accept quests that A) would be horribly inefficient to level with and B) I already done. I also started noticing weird performance issues. Zygor was causing stuttering and FPS dips like crazy. So to close off I requested a refund and the person I spoke to did say I'll be getting one but we will see if that happens. Not getting my hopes up.

Well, I never have tried that before - dungeon leveling. Last time I leveled a character, I used the Zygor guide, and what I liked about that guide was how intelligent it was. It would tell you to take specific quests, and would skip you over other quests. The idea is that some quests take more time than they are worth, and that doing some others are the most efficient route. Well, I'm level 5 right now. It's been a long time, but what's my first dungeon? And at what level might I do this?


The next biggest  problem (after time) is deciding the format it should take.  It seems to me, these quests will mostly be done while running around doing world quests.  Since we can't  predict what order someone will have world quests show up in, it is impossible to decide what order to put the quests in.  Should it be one guide for all of Horde Kul Tiras and one for Alliance Zandalar, or one for each zone?
That’s where the Zygor guide came in handy. There was a mini Zygor viewer within the game that broke down the steps in the quest so I’d be able to accomplish it easier. Do you notice the yellow arrow at the top of the heads of Norciandra and the draenei Proenitus? Well, it’s the “waypoint” and whenever I clicked on the quest in the viewer, it pointed me to a particular path and showed how far or close I was to the quest. It turned green whenever I was on the right track and yellow when I tried to head to different directions.

People are never going to learn that sites like Zygor Guides, Dugi, and other premium site actively search out accounts that leak and share the guides and close them down thus cutting off OUR SOURCE OF CURRENT UPDATES! They use methods much like Whoknowsit did by embedding an encrypted tag somewhere with your username or account number so they can trace the leak back to the account. Just as Whoknowsit did.
When you installed Zygor Guides Free Trial, quite a number of entry & files were created in the Windows Registry (What is Windows Registry) and hard drive, while running the default uninstaller always failed to remove all these data, it leaves us to manually track down and delete the leftovers inside the computer. This is an optional step, you can skip it and call it a day, but if you keep ignoring this every time you uninstall a program, your computer registry may become overloaded as such useless data accumulating, thus lead to system slowing down. Though it is optional, it is still recommended to do it as a good practice of using your computer.
I think I accidentally clicked a banner for Zygor and got to the website. I'm like, "Bleh, some BS guides", but then I noticed how nice the site is and started reading about the guides. I was like, "F-it, why not" and subscribed to Elite. Loaded everything up and got in game. I was surprised at how nice the addon interface is and how many options there are to control it.
I used Zygor for legion and BFA, used AA on an alt for BFA. Personally i like Zygors format more. I like being able to target things like achievements. I used Zygor to get my Mindworm and my Lucid Nightmare as well as finish the Rep grinds for the allied races. I have zero complaints. My experience was great. I also used Zygor for some professions, recipe acquisition, a couple mounts, all of the Suramar quest line. Thank God for that. And for the last zone of Draenor on my Demon Hunter.. i forget the name.. Whatever the big daily hub thing was called.
In order for our addon and it's community to thrive, we need people to visit our website, WoW-Pro.com. We provide a trial version here on Curse, but if you want our full addon you'll need to download it from our website, wow-pro.com. The addon and it's guides are still 100% FREE, you just need to download it there instead of here to get the full version.
That’s where the Zygor guide came in handy. There was a mini Zygor viewer within the game that broke down the steps in the quest so I’d be able to accomplish it easier. Do you notice the yellow arrow at the top of the heads of Norciandra and the draenei Proenitus? Well, it’s the “waypoint” and whenever I clicked on the quest in the viewer, it pointed me to a particular path and showed how far or close I was to the quest. It turned green whenever I was on the right track and yellow when I tried to head to different directions.

Yeah. I realize ahead of time that you're completely correct. Unfortunately, I'm a type A personality and always in a rush to get to what I perceive as my goal. Actually I would have just bought a 100 character but I did that with a paladin and it took me a month to figure out how to play the damn thing. I will say that this has been a different experience. I love this warlock. Even with heirlooms.
Some people are unable to uninstall Zygor Guides Free Trial for that they always encounter some problems during the removal, so it may be not an easy task for many of you to remove this program easily as other installed applications. This post is just about an instructions to help you remove Zygor Guides Free Trial successfully, you can choose a good way to troubleshoot this removing problem on your PC.
When you installed Zygor Guides Free Trial, quite a number of entry & files were created in the Windows Registry (What is Windows Registry) and hard drive, while running the default uninstaller always failed to remove all these data, it leaves us to manually track down and delete the leftovers inside the computer. This is an optional step, you can skip it and call it a day, but if you keep ignoring this every time you uninstall a program, your computer registry may become overloaded as such useless data accumulating, thus lead to system slowing down. Though it is optional, it is still recommended to do it as a good practice of using your computer.
Some people are unable to uninstall Zygor Guides Free Trial for that they always encounter some problems during the removal, so it may be not an easy task for many of you to remove this program easily as other installed applications. This post is just about an instructions to help you remove Zygor Guides Free Trial successfully, you can choose a good way to troubleshoot this removing problem on your PC.
The next biggest  problem (after time) is deciding the format it should take.  It seems to me, these quests will mostly be done while running around doing world quests.  Since we can't  predict what order someone will have world quests show up in, it is impossible to decide what order to put the quests in.  Should it be one guide for all of Horde Kul Tiras and one for Alliance Zandalar, or one for each zone? 

If you're in a big hurry to hit the end do these two things, run each dungeon at least once and complete the quests inside them, dungeons give HUGE amounts of experience for their quests last I knew and que for a battleground every so often. While it's not the fastest leveling, it mixes things up a bit and gives you a break from the grind, and if you're not crazy into the story it's a huge grind.
Then I made my way inside the cave in Stillpine Hold to complete the last half of the quests: inspect the blood crystals, kill Chieftain Oomooroo, the 9 Crazed Wildkin, and The Kurken. Only it took me a while to get to the cave. I didn’t know the quest was inside the cave so I tried using the waypoint to find the location, but it directed me on the other side of the mountain. Which was quite far from the cave.
I'd rather not have to manually re-do all the settings for all my addons in-game unless it's absolutely necessary (since I don't have memorized what the exact settings are I use, so I'd have to take screenshots of them all and then remake the settings to match the screenshots). So I'd rather get some more input about this problem before I try troubleshooting it that way.
It showed what items were on the rise, which ones were stagnant, and which ones were going down. I don't know how accurate it is since I am not familiar with my realms AH yet. I put some things on the AH with the Zygor suggested price and sold about 5k worth of stuff (I had a ton of MoP gems/herbs sitting around). I did use TSM suggestions as well and for the most part they seemed pretty close. But I did do an AH scan with Zygor before posting.
There is another way to uninstall Zygor Guides Free Trial in addition to the manual removal - advanced program uninstall tool, which is more popular and easier to handle for many computer users. And the highlight is that if you encounter some problems during the manually program removal, the professional uninstaller also can help you resolve the removing problem on your PC

I've isolated the issue to BanditUserInterface/BUI_MiniMap.lua lines 173, 174 within the function BUI.MiniMap.Show(). When Bandit sets up the minimap, it looks like this method makes a global call that effectively imposes itself over every other Addon including the Zygor guide. And if I'm not mistaken, the main map itself dubs as the mini-map, which may explain why it's constantly appearing.
Now if there was a quest chain that I found to be a lot of work, it was The Prophecy of Akida. In those series of quests, I had to learn the language of the Stillpine furbolgs to help them reclaim Stillpine Hold. To complete the quest, I had to find four totems (Totem of Coo, Totem of Tikti, Totem of Yor and Totem of Vark) located in different parts of Azuremyst Isle. Along the way I encountered a lot of aggressive NPC’s. At one point, I was even simultaneously attacked by at least three of them. Needless to say, it was the second time I died in the game. 

BlackWow Pro takes the best properties of BlackWow Classic and makes it perform even better to satisfy the needs and demands of the professional detailer. BlackWow Pro works on both interior and exterior surfaces whether painted, vinyl coated, rubber, or plastic. Packaged in a 16 fl oz bottle with a twist cap, dispensing is easy and fast on a variety of applicators. BlackWow Pro can be applied to any colored material in seconds and lasts 6+ months. BlackWow Pro and BlackWow Classic only share the smell (watermelon candy), and the color in common, otherwise they are completely different formulas and silicones developed with two very different goals in mind for different users. BlackWow Pro is all about fast absorbing, easy to spread, flexible on multiple surfaces, flexible application methods in a large professional size. BlackWow Classic is all about super concentrated tiny amounts spread out to sizable areas and lasts for many months once absorbed.

I'd rather not have to manually re-do all the settings for all my addons in-game unless it's absolutely necessary (since I don't have memorized what the exact settings are I use, so I'd have to take screenshots of them all and then remake the settings to match the screenshots). So I'd rather get some more input about this problem before I try troubleshooting it that way.


TSM v4.6.3 has been released! If you are running the TSM Desktop Application (and have TSM4 installed), you will be automatically updated momentarily. Otherwise, you can download directly from our site here: https://www.tradeskillmaster.com/install (or wait for it to show on CurseForge/Twitch – which may take a few hours). Changes * Added a new “baseitem” keyword which can be used as a price source paramater in custom prices (i.e. “dbmarket(baseitem)”) * Made some optimizations to group-based Shopping scans to not scan items with invalid max prices * When posting via Shopping, you can now easily change the variation of the item being posted * Linking an item into shopping will now prompt you to sell that variant by default when posting * Multiline edit boxes will now scroll with the cursor to make it easier to edit large strings * Fixed a bunch of issues with relationships across operation settings * Fixed disenchanting rates for scaled items * Fixed an issue where WoW would freeze while using various TSM UIs * Fixed various issues with using the Banking UI to move items in and out of the guild bank * Fixed a bug with importing while “Moved already grouped items” was disabled * Fixed a bug where importing a list of items was creating a new “Imported Items” group * Fixed a few issues caused by the recently-mapped global prices * Fixed a minor typo in the tooltip settings UI Known Issues http://support.tradeskillmaster.com/display/KB/TSM4+Currently+Known+Issues read more

We push multiple alpha versions to Curse on an average day, these versions may contain important new features or bug fixes for the bleeding edge raid content... These versions are tagged as alpha, so they will not be downloaded by default. Set your Curse client to update to alpha if you want these latest versions (but they may contain bugs, downloads tagged as "Beta" or "Release" are more stable)


Zygor Guides are high quality in-game strategy guides for World of Warcraft that will walk you step by step through every aspect of the game. Zygor's Leveling and Loremaster guide is the ultimate tool for players who want to level up quickly and earn the coveted Loremaster achievement. This guide will lead you quest by quest through every zone, telling you exactly where you need to go, how to complete objectives, and everything else required to reach level 120 in the fastest time possible. Zygor's Dailies and Reputation guide is perfect for players who have reached max level and are looking to dive head first into the end game content. Our guides walk you through all of the Dailies and World Quests needed to earn resources and raise reputation in order to unlock the most rare and unique items. Zygor's Dungeon and Gear guide is a great for players who prefer to level up by running dungeons. The guide provides detailed walkthroughs of the all dungeons quests and boss fights. Furthermore, it includes a suite of features that will help you find the best gear upgrades for your characters, including which bosses drop the best gear. Zygor's Pets and Mounts guide is a huge in-game bestiary for finding, capturing, and taming the numerous creatures roaming the wilds of Azeroth. Whether you're looking for a loyal companion to join you on your adventures, or a swift steed to get you to and fro, Zygor's Pets and Mounts guide is the ultimate guide to have at your side during your next World of Warcraft safari. Show off your greatest achievements and win favor with Zygor's Titles and Reputations guide. This comphrensive guide will help you unlock dozens of unique titles to display in front of your characters name and show you the easiest way to raise your reputation so you can acccess exclusive rewards only sold by the games various factions. Zygor's Gold & Professions is an all in one solution for making mounds of gold in World of Warcraft. The guide will show you how to level up your professions to max skill level and then use them to make mounds of gold. It also includes a suite of tools to help you master the Auction House.
The best part about the guides, though, is that you won't be sidetracked by various other quests. For example, if you're a dwarf questing through Eastern Kingdoms & get that random quest that takes you to Feralas, Zygor will keep you on track by putting that Feralas quest on the back burner while you keep chugging through the main storyline in Eastern Kingdoms.
Disclaimer: While we work to ensure that product information is correct, on occasion manufacturers may alter their ingredient lists. Actual product packaging and materials may contain more and/or different information than that shown on our Web site. We recommend that you do not solely rely on the information presented and that you always read labels, warnings, and directions before using or consuming a product. For additional information about a product, please contact the manufacturer. Content on this site is for reference purposes and is not intended to substitute for advice given by a physician, pharmacist, or other licensed health-care professional. You should not use this information as self-diagnosis or for treating a health problem or disease. Contact your health-care provider immediately if you suspect that you have a medical problem. Information and statements regarding dietary supplements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration and are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease or health condition. Amazon.com assumes no liability for inaccuracies or misstatements about products.
If you are looking for some solid information on fast leveling in wow and you want to plunk down the dollars, you should take a look at Zygor Guide. One of the first great features you notice is that this guide is available for both Alliance and Horde while other guides are horde or alliance only. That's why Zygor Guide sets itself apart from the crowd. The absolute best part of the guide is the map add-on. Once you have loaded up the mapmod, it makes it very easy to follow along with Zygor Guides in a step-by-step fashion. You won't need to press alt+tab aveytime you need to find your next step or coordinate. Everything is inside your game.
I think I accidentally clicked a banner for Zygor and got to the website. I'm like, "Bleh, some BS guides", but then I noticed how nice the site is and started reading about the guides. I was like, "F-it, why not" and subscribed to Elite. Loaded everything up and got in game. I was surprised at how nice the addon interface is and how many options there are to control it.
People are never going to learn that sites like Zygor Guides, Dugi, and other premium site actively search out accounts that leak and share the guides and close them down thus cutting off OUR SOURCE OF CURRENT UPDATES! They use methods much like Whoknowsit did by embedding an encrypted tag somewhere with your username or account number so they can trace the leak back to the account. Just as Whoknowsit did.
  • acheos, acid, Addam, adss, aeitschbi, Aksu94, Alexxsander25, almigimenes, Anatsuki, andrej.adamik, andrew120910, Aniyadrra, Apu, ara, asdanonymous, asg092, Atics, baalzebuv, badboi, Bluespide, bobthegr8, bombguy187, buraja, c4risim, cedrickgagne, cedroa, CIIC, cloverklee, contacttom, cortez001, cresas, crewel, Cruucy, CypherShot, davidarius, Decones, dedesilvaeq, Demon42, DerVani, Devilsenforcer, dipen787, Dmgctrl, Don, Drakkz, dreamzdot, Drethak, DrWhite, Duhkie, eal3nd1, edwinvgs, edwoolley, enrique15877, errorfree, evasiv3, fekke, fl1x, FloobyDooby, freakzilla317, frogger79, Geimerys, geneu88, GeremiTM, gingerbabydoll, GongasHeat, Gordma, Gr0ge0, gr3nka, grakev2348294, gth733r, hakanaxu, Helsvinir, higashidani, hightower, ibsneekaboo, idontcare, ijsleu, ilsa1939, Immewnity, jacobinajanks, Jazzur, Jnic290, joezeph, jotapts, julianobsi, ka11, kakus666, kazefaze, kecskesadam, kellica, kiddo3301, klices, konfuzu, kub4rm4n, Lawliet016, leozin993, lilweew, lodwallo, londolo, LordRyborg, LordYazz, lotharam, Lout1948, luiz, manuelpeh, masky007, matheus22600, maxespencer, Messerwurm, messycan, Metatronn, Metosz, micados, Mikirex, mivitec, mopio, Moslake, MrBrego, MrGreen030, MrKudden, Muthiel, mystere8618, narki, NeKonGrio, NerdyTimes, nextrin, nicollassantos, nikos2021, Ninaveve, nonloser1995, numbel, Nyaification, padfoot, paganmomma70, painkill10, PaulioG, petyike11, pler, preylor, Prohormon, psa90, pugglypiff, r3zk, Rando123, rawrapp, raymond13004, rayzimbr, Reloecc, revsoldest, Riddok, rinconvaldivia, rmichnik, robinwaerts, RusticCowboy7, Ryoog, Ryuu, sal101, salemov, selomelo7, shadowskull28, Shaxey, sidorlord, Skiera, skincreeper, skrzypi, snide, Sonick, Splatlack, Spotty, sundbom93, Surfy_D, Tarkinug, Tauglorin, Tex1966, TheBeeMan, Tillec, tiozaum, titotof, tonkepen, tooleyinhd, Topper1703, TotalCool, toxotis, Twenkye, twirler, TwoDragons, Tycandus, unpi, Vanetrik, vas99, viggo123, viniciussk888, vinoh, ViserysIII, vitorcariri1, vmosquito, waaxer, waras, worthfivecents, xaouf, xkamor, yamanama, yoitsme23, yorsh86, zaibat, zerocool4949, Zetita, _kosha_79
Anyway I will go ahead & download the Twitch app like everyone's saying, but I still need to know whether my in-game addon settings will carry over automatically, or whether they'd return to default same as if they'd all been uninstalled in the curse client then reinstalled from scratch. Because if it's the latter then I will have to take screenshots of the settings on all my toons BEFORE I install the addons thru the Twitch client.
1 All expansion guides are written in the Battle for Azeroth beta in order to have them ready on launch day. It's important to note that betas can be buggy and unstable and may delay and even halt our progress on the guides. Furthermore, the time between the start of beta and the announced release of Battle for Azeroth is much shorter (by about 2-3 months) than past betas. As a result, our primary focus is to have the Leveling guides updated by the launch, and only if those are complete and time remains will we work on updating the remaining guides. All guides not finished in beta will be updated post launch. You can read more about this here.
  • AeroVux, ahmedben, anduinlotharz, araknis, Baldurianus, biz6073, blardiarg, blueakamah64, boomstorm, chocosauce69, david1121k, DeathMonster, delgern, demi316, djcosmic2, dodolaum, dragorixvlad, exilirem, farik, Fobin, ghera, Gomias, greymouser67, guicyber, helix06, Homerrox, kecskesadam, Lesath666, liba123, longinart, Loryth, Lunitun, Lynarg, malawie, manovi, marcosprvcom, maskk, Maxranviir, melvus, Mengar, misiek1210, Muthiel, Naughtnes, NeoTeCa, noxmonk, NytemareRulez, oBarba, patou247, Pentragon, pipicar, PirateRabbids, prime, PrincessAv, Quastin, rafaelccc, Rokkalion, senwodota, SithiousCZ, sivribeyin, Skyhan, SkyKingVik, smose, Starby, sugartwig, Tiranzoide, venkat3056, versalies, walmorn, webprinz, xenir, zacstrix, zegro, zeininha, Zoo380, zslbd
If you're in a big hurry to hit the end do these two things, run each dungeon at least once and complete the quests inside them, dungeons give HUGE amounts of experience for their quests last I knew and que for a battleground every so often. While it's not the fastest leveling, it mixes things up a bit and gives you a break from the grind, and if you're not crazy into the story it's a huge grind.
A handful of us donated to Whoknowsit to so he could buy ALL the upgraded guides for MoP for all of us. That was an investment into THIS community not into torrents or into any other. We want it to remain safe for us to continue to use. Whoknowsit is smart enough to know what to look for to take out Zygors' tracking info, but he knows he is NOT perfect. That is why he is STILL careful.
  • AeroVux, ahmedben, anduinlotharz, araknis, Baldurianus, biz6073, blardiarg, blueakamah64, boomstorm, chocosauce69, david1121k, DeathMonster, delgern, demi316, djcosmic2, dodolaum, dragorixvlad, exilirem, farik, Fobin, ghera, Gomias, greymouser67, guicyber, helix06, Homerrox, kecskesadam, Lesath666, liba123, longinart, Loryth, Lunitun, Lynarg, malawie, manovi, marcosprvcom, maskk, Maxranviir, melvus, Mengar, misiek1210, Muthiel, Naughtnes, NeoTeCa, noxmonk, NytemareRulez, oBarba, patou247, Pentragon, pipicar, PirateRabbids, prime, PrincessAv, Quastin, rafaelccc, Rokkalion, senwodota, SithiousCZ, sivribeyin, Skyhan, SkyKingVik, smose, Starby, sugartwig, Tiranzoide, venkat3056, versalies, walmorn, webprinz, xenir, zacstrix, zegro, zeininha, Zoo380, zslbd
Leveling you character is very complicated process in world of warcraft. Many players need several month or even years to get to level 70. But what if you don't want to waste all your time playing wow so much but you still want to get to level 70 and be better than your wow friends or enemies? Than you should use special wow leveling guides which will help you to get to level 70 as fast as possible. That's why I picked up Zygor Guide so that I could maximize my efficiency while leveling, so that I can keep up with friends who have more time to play. In this article I will tell you more about this guide and its main features.
  • AeroVux, ahmedben, anduinlotharz, araknis, Baldurianus, biz6073, blardiarg, blueakamah64, boomstorm, chocosauce69, david1121k, DeathMonster, delgern, demi316, djcosmic2, dodolaum, dragorixvlad, exilirem, farik, Fobin, ghera, Gomias, greymouser67, guicyber, helix06, Homerrox, kecskesadam, Lesath666, liba123, longinart, Loryth, Lunitun, Lynarg, malawie, manovi, marcosprvcom, maskk, Maxranviir, melvus, Mengar, misiek1210, Muthiel, Naughtnes, NeoTeCa, noxmonk, NytemareRulez, oBarba, patou247, Pentragon, pipicar, PirateRabbids, prime, PrincessAv, Quastin, rafaelccc, Rokkalion, senwodota, SithiousCZ, sivribeyin, Skyhan, SkyKingVik, smose, Starby, sugartwig, Tiranzoide, venkat3056, versalies, walmorn, webprinz, xenir, zacstrix, zegro, zeininha, Zoo380, zslbd

TSM v4.6 has been released! If you are running the TSM Desktop Application (and have TSM4 installed), you will be automatically updated momentarily. Otherwise, you can download directly from our site here: https://www.tradeskillmaster.com/install (or wait for it to show on CurseForge/Twitch – which may take a few hours). Changes * Added a new “baseitem” keyword which can be used as a price source paramater in custom prices (i.e. “dbmarket(baseitem)”) * Made some optimizations to group-based Shopping scans to not scan items with invalid max prices * When posting via Shopping, you can now easily change the variation of the item being posted * Linking an item into shopping will now prompt you to sell that variant by default when posting * Multiline edit boxes will now scroll with the cursor to make it easier to edit large strings * Fixed a bunch of issues with relationships across operation settings * Fixed disenchanting rates for scaled items * Fixed an issue where WoW would freeze while using various TSM UIs * Fixed various issues with using the Banking UI to move items in and out of the guild bank * Fixed a bug with importing while “Moved already grouped items” was disabled * Fixed a bug where importing a list of items was creating a new “Imported Items” group * Fixed a few issues caused by the recently-mapped global prices * Fixed a minor typo in the tooltip settings UI Known Issues http://support.tradeskillmaster.com/display/KB/TSM4+Currently+Known+Issues read more
Ragefire Chasm- won't be able to enter it till level 15 I believe. If this is your first horde toon though I'd honestly recommend leveling with the quest and without heirlooms or a guide. For me personally I've never gotten attached to a character who I spammed dungeons with and normally I quit them around 60 because I can't be bothered with the toon anymore. Can only kill so many loot piñatas before I get sick of it.

Some addons are standalone, and are able to run without any additional addons being installed; others can require certain other addons to be installed to work at all, or integrate with other addons to provide additional functionality. Collections of addons that have been put together to form a coherent user interface are sometimes referred to as UIs.


The next biggest  problem (after time) is deciding the format it should take.  It seems to me, these quests will mostly be done while running around doing world quests.  Since we can't  predict what order someone will have world quests show up in, it is impossible to decide what order to put the quests in.  Should it be one guide for all of Horde Kul Tiras and one for Alliance Zandalar, or one for each zone? 
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