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What add-ons can do has changed over the years and have become much more sophisticated as authors have gained years of experience and savvy. We’re not 100% on a concrete solution to what this means for WoW Classic yet, but one thing we know is that we’re not going to roll all the way back to the 1.12 add-on API. Doing so would open the way for nearly complete automation of combat decision making allowing for “bot” behavior that is counter to the core WoW gameplay experience. This is one thing we know we don’t want. On the other end of the spectrum, the modern API offers some additional functionality for creating social features that could also undermine the authentic classic experience. We’re still figuring out the details and looking for a good middle ground. We’ll be keeping a close eye on feedback from the community and add-on authors on where we should be setting those boundaries.
Why Skinning? Skinning is incredibly easy to level up while you are leveling your character. The leather that you skin will almost always sell on the Auction House (albeit not for much, but hey– it’s free gold!). Even if you don’t want to take the effort to sell the skins on the Auction House, you can simply vendor them for a significant amount of extra gold.
Druid is one of the most versatile classes across all of World of Warcraft Classic. By picking Druid you will have plenty of options to choose from while leveling. However, in the end-game, most groups will expect you to heal, though, Feral and Balance druids are also very desirable for their Innervate and Rebirth abilities. Additionally, various animal forms will make traversing the world into quite an uncomplicated task.
Nov 15 Dual Boxing in Classic I was seriously thinking about being a masochist and playing a paladin in classic but then I wondered if dual boxing will still be possible in classic with the change in engines running the game. I've never dual boxed so will have to research how it works. However, it hit me that I can dual box a warrior and a priest then transfer the priest to my main account at 60 so I will have the best tank and best healer in the game to play around with. Anyone else planning on doing this and have any good resources to start learning about it?Twiinkedd6 Nov 15
One may think that the AH may suffer a reduction of competitivity, leading to higher prices, but in an healthy server the gold farmer's farm will be taken over by actual players. Giving the chance to a more fair gameplay where you can go out and farm the materials that you need, instead to see them always farmed by gold sellers that sell them to you, without letting you many room to make gold in a fair way.
The Horde 12-20 (Barrens + Stonetalon Mountains) guide has been rewritten and revamped.  In addition, there has been numerous tweaks to the speedrun route to make things faster and easier to follow.  Also, in case you haven't noticed I am now adding about 40% more info per step and redoing all the images.  Unlike with my previous vanilla guides, I am now giving a brief explanation of where to go and what to do with each step along with any other helpful tips.
Nov 15 Thank you for the demo I just want to say thank you to Blizzard for the demo. I seriously had so much fun - so much more fun than I've had trying to play wow in YEARS. I know not everything was 100% accurate to classic, but it was just a demo so that doesn't worry me too much. I still had a million times more fun playing that demo than retail in any case. THE THINGS I LOVED: (1) I died so much. Like... SO MUCH, and that's alright! Once I finally finished whatever it was I was doing, it felt really rewarding! My group and I were actually laughing when we party wiped. No one insulted anyone or pointed blame, we just had fun. (2) Things took time. The journey mattered, it wasn't just about hitting end game asap. I felt accomplished at the end of all those time consuming things I did. (3) I had fun exploring! I spent so much time just running around, not knowing what the heck to do, but that was FUN. I had FUN getting lost and finding treasure chests. (4) Seeing the classic models again! Tbh, the races all look rubbery and stupid now... I honestly think the old racial looks are nicer. (5) Reading quests was necessary again, so the story mattered to me. No one booted me from the party for "taking too long" because I wanted to read. (6) The community! There were actually people doing RP stuff and talking in character. Everyone in the chat was just having fun. (7) All of the inconveniences - running out of mana, no mounts, running slowly on foot, little or no flightpaths... These things are fun because they're not just handed to me. I had to work hard and play the game to get things. (8) People constantly buffed other players, because that small boost could be the reason you didn't die when a roaming centaur attacked you from behind. THE THINGS I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT: (1) I've heard rumors about possible sharding... PLEASE DO NOT SHARD. PLEASE. I can understand if it's temporary just for the initial launch, and only for starting zones. I think that is a decent enough compromise for the inevitable problem of overpopulation for the first few weeks. But if we're talking about full scale realm sharding, PLEASE DO NOT! Cross-realm features and sharding are what ruined communities in wow, same with dungeon finder and other such things, and these features are very unwanted for a classic player like me. (2) The elite raptor I tamed as a hunter was not stronger than the non-elite raptor I tamed at the same level. In classic, elite animals had better stats as hunter pets once tamed, compared to the same non-elite version of that animal at the same level. (3) I think the mana and health regen rates were a bit too high? I'm not certain, but if they were I honestly want them to be genuine. It's okay if it's hard - challenges make games fun! Anyway, thank you again! I had a ton of fun, and as long as classic is true to classic with all of its pros AND cons, I feel certain that it will be a success.Sarai10 Nov 15
So even though you can play a WoW Classic demo today, we’re not done quite yet. We have lots of capital city features to look at, such as banks and auction houses. We need to test our dungeons and raids to make sure the bosses’ abilities all still work correctly. We need to examine all of our PvP systems. But we’re committed to taking a close look at all of these and more as continue bring the classic game back to life.
1. Vue d'ensemble de la classe Voleur 2. La meilleure race pour Voleur 3. Astuces leveling pour le Voleur 4. Les poison du Voleur 5. Addons pour Voleur 6. La meilleure spé pour le leveling 7. La spé alternative : « Frontstabbing » 8. Rotation optimisée pour le leveling 9. Stats conseillées pour le leveling 10. Liste des meilleures épées 11. Liste des meilleures dagues

Nov 15 [OCE] Alliance Late night PvE will be a hard core focused PvE raiding guild. GOALS To clear all content efficiently and quickly To have fun To be the best we can be To clear MC during week 2- RAID TIMES raid times will be held in GMT+9, this is Japan's time zone for reference, this does NOT follow day light savings. for reference, at this moment these times would be 11:30 in Sydney, and 7:30AM EST USA. MON 9:30PM-12:30AM WED 9:30PM-12:30AM THUR 9:30PM-12:30AM-may schedule a 4th day during progression if needed- 20 man raids will be help on off days, or raid days if all content has been cleared. again to be clear, this schedule will not follow DSL, so your start time may move 1 hour forward or backwards during the year. EXPECTATIONS I want my raiders to be willing. You do not have to be a former pro raider, you do not have to have vanilla experience. While these things are welcomed and I do share these qualities. All i need from you is the willingness to learn and become better. Give me your best and I'll give you quality leadership that has proven time and time again to down bosses and push through content. Effort will always be rewarded. LOOT RULES I will be using my own system style of loot council. It has worked well for me in the past and I will continue to use it. I can explain parts of it in detail on discord if you wish. ROSTER This is a brand new endeavor, I will be main tanking and I am looking for others to help me push this to a competent raid team. I look forward to making fresh connections and creating great bonds with all of you. ABOUT ME I have been playing warcraft since vanilla. I climbed higher and higher into better and better guilds until I eventually landed in a top 10 US guild during MoP. before WOD released I essentially stopped hardcore raiding and went more casual. I am now looking to get back into a more hardcore scene with like minded individuals who enjoy the prestige of completing content quickly. CONTACT BATTLENET Firefly#1855 DISCORD Hatchmark#2695 the discord has lots of links to video guides and other sources to help get you ready for classicHatchmark8 Nov 15

Leatherworking has three specializations: Elemental, Tribal and Dragonscale. I’d pick up Tribal one. It allows to craft Devilsaur set items. Hunters, Rogues, Warriors, Feral Druids, even Enhancement Shamans and Retribution Paladins are among your potential clients. On any realm there is Un’Goro Mafia on Horde and Alliance, they control whole Un’Goro Crater zone and farm Devilsaurs 24/7. They are making thousands of gold. With Dragonscale Spec you are able to craft Black Dragon Mail set. Good demand as well among DPS classes Warriors, Hunters, Shamans, Paladins, for those who wants Bis Pre-Raid items fast and easy.


Nov 15 The most hardcore thing you can do. In vanilla? I have a few things that could be it. Playing on a perma death PvP server and kill kel'thuzad. Without dying even once. Being able to kill a mage/rogue/warlock/pally in all BiS gear Soloing a high end dungeon boss like rivendare or dark master gandling. Leveling to 60 with no gear or weapons or pet of any kind. That is by far the most hardcore, life threatening thing you can do in vanilla wowHavell7	Nov 15 

Furthermore, we highly recommend you plan in advance regarding the class that you want to play. In the Classic WoW, there were no class specs. Every talent point spent couldn’t be changed without first resetting all of them and the talent point reset was a costly practice. If you already know what you want to play as in the end game – try to develop your talent tree accordingly. This way you’ll be able to save a lot of gold in advance.
Blizzard has put out a ‘not a bug’ list that covers many commonly-reported features that seem strange to players, such as players and NPCs that are feared running faster, and quest objectives not being tracked on the map or minimap. Respawn rates for creatures is much slower than it is in Battle for Azeroth, and this is intentional – it reflects the respawn rate in the World of Warcraft version 1.12.
It is a great advantage to start making some silver and your first gold coin at low levels already. Skinning is a nice choice here. Fast and easy way to gather resources, leather of all kinds while leveling for those who are at the race to level 60. There are many good spots to grind beast mobs and skin them. I like doing it as a Troll Hunter, trolls have a passive racial ability: + 5% bonus damage against beasts.
World of Warcraft: Classic might be just around the corner, so it’s about time to start preparing. We’ve already published a class selection guide, and today we’re focusing on the most important resource of the game, of course, it is gold. Many players who played World of Warcraft back in the day might remember the times when you needed to count every spent penny and the times when gold farmers roamed the Azeroth on their super expensive epic mounts. In vanilla WoW, gold was everything. And we’re here to help you save as much of it as possible. So, without further due, let’s dive in our World of Warcraft: Classic gold making guide.
Wait, /sit to trigger crits is p-server thing? I distinctly remember people saying that if you sit, you will be crit when I played 1.12 Vanilla. On top of that - there’s that pally that one shot Kazzak in early Vanilla because he stacked a shitload of reckoning when it didn’t have a limit - it’s not inconceivable that he did it without /sit to trigger crits, but it would take him so, SO long to do that without /sit.
It is also worth noting that World of Warcraft Classic isn't exactly an archive from 2006. It has been rebuilt from patch 1.12, using modern data architecture and reaps the benefits of the modern engine. This means a lot of non-controversial quality-of-life features will still be present and it is possible to run WoW Classic servers on modern server architecture. As you can imagine, much has changed in the last 13 years in the tech space. That's before smartphones were even a thing. The modern engine no longer allows certain behaviours that could be used to get out of bounds, also adds widescreen monitor support and accessibility options! However, it does have the disadvantage of not being able to run on 32-bit systems which isn't that kind to older systems considering the game is from 2006.
Other decisions were slightly less clear cut. At one point in WoW’s history, there was an 8 debuff limit on any one target. This was later raised to 16, and today there is no debuff limit. Thes change radically changed the balance of classes and strategies players could employ when using these debuffs to overcome content. To preserve that balance—and to avoid the slippery slope of retuning patch 1.12 data to compensate for such modern-era changes—we’re looking at setting a debuff limit of 16 for WoW Classic.

In terms of what the World of Warcraft Classic Best Classes are, Warrior and Priest stand out almost instantly. This is partly due to the fact that Protection Warrior is the only viable Tank Class in WoW Vanilla Patch 1.12. Both the Proc Warrior and Priest are required for Raids and when combined in a PVP setting can be a fierce combo on the battlegrounds.

This is the most advanced tip that will only suit the smart players – those willing to spend some time in the auction house. In order to start with the speculations, you’ll need some initial funds and some basic knowledge about the prices on your server, so this tip might not be suitable for many. Back in the day, in order to sell stuff quickly, people used to sell various stuff cheaper than the average price standard on the market and your job is to find those deals and quickly buy them out before anyone else does. This is where the real gold making comes from!
I think that the token is a nice solution for the problem. Back in the days, blizzard tryed to ban gold sellers, but it was a lost cause. Instead, the token seems to have resolved the problem, letting workers that want to raid with consumables and stuffs to have the golds to do it. Personally, I don't find the gold buying really fair, but I understand that for many people is a necessity and I prefer to leave the economy and the farming spots to the player instead to the gold sellers.
Leatherworking has three specializations: Elemental, Tribal and Dragonscale. I’d pick up Tribal one. It allows to craft Devilsaur set items. Hunters, Rogues, Warriors, Feral Druids, even Enhancement Shamans and Retribution Paladins are among your potential clients. On any realm there is Un’Goro Mafia on Horde and Alliance, they control whole Un’Goro Crater zone and farm Devilsaurs 24/7. They are making thousands of gold. With Dragonscale Spec you are able to craft Black Dragon Mail set. Good demand as well among DPS classes Warriors, Hunters, Shamans, Paladins, for those who wants Bis Pre-Raid items fast and easy.
This is the first faction exclusive class available only for the Alliance players. Paladins in World of Warcraft: Classic end-game were considered as one of the best single target healers around. However, other Paladin specs were not that popular. While Protection Paladins found their spot with tanking groups of mobs across the dungeons, Retribution Paladins weren’t very popular in the end-game. However, Paladins were amazing levelers and World PvP participants due to their amazing utility skills and ‘oh shit’ buttons such as Lay on Hands or Bubble.
There’s the reason why some players used to call the game World of Roguecraft. Rogue was one of the most popular classes in classic WoW and there’s a good reason for it. During vanilla, Rogues topped DPS meters in raids and dungeons, but their main strength was world PvP. Rogues could stealth through enemies avoiding unwanted engagements with the opposing faction. Additionally, a huge variety of crowd control abilities and high burst damage made them the worst nightmare for the cloth-wearing classes. However, Rogues were in a bit of disadvantage regarding end-game gearing since most of their gear pieces were useful to other in-game classes as well.
First thing you should do is to learn the market for the specific item you would like to monopolize. Let’s say it is Kingsblood. We can see a stack of Kingsblood is selling for 1 gold. There are 10 stacks on Auction House. To control the market, you have to buy out all the lots of Kingsblood, even single ones. Next move is to make auctions of Kingsblood you have bought for the price you want. Be reasonable and make it 2 gold. But all people are still being used to the old price of 1 gold and will not buy your Kingsblood at first. You have to maintain your auctions for 2 gold all the time, no need to put all Kingsblood you have at once, 3-5 lots are enough at the beginning. You can see, other sellers may start create auctions for 2 gold as well. That’s what we need.  But if someone is selling for cheaper price, buy out their Kingsblood immediately. Soon people will start to accept your price of 2 gold as a regular price and will buy your stuff. Now you just to have to sell all Kingsblood you got. Control several markets. It can be anything, even twink blue items or items level 20-30 or 30-40. Same strategy works everywhere. It requires lots of time to track the markets and check auction house. It is not that easy as it may seem, you should spend at least a week of monitoring to be sure about prices, you will fail if you buy out everything at once without research. Soon or later, too many people will decide to sell your item as well. As they could see price change and think it had happened naturally. Market becomes overflooded. It is important to quit before the collapse. This always happens.
World of Warcraft (also known as WoW) players have highly requested the classic version of their favourite game. As with any game, changes and major updates are added over the years. Since August 2006, many changes to the game have not been received well: such as trivialising levelling up. The level cap will drop from 120 to 60, but contrary to how that sounds, it will be a far more grindy journey of fun and progress. The current developers have made levelling up very fast in comparison to the classic days, purely to focus on end-game content and raiding which many people do not enjoy. Prior to these changes, many people enjoyed the games for years whilst not hitting max level, something never seen in the modern edition of World of Warcraft. The levelling process was a journey, having fun with professions and the grind that is no longer found. Of course, there are countless other changes that will be reverted, as you might expect when comparing something from 2006 to 2019.

In order to save up gold quickly, you must be mindful of your character’s professions. According to various sources, the most profitable profession back in the day used to be herbalism. Mining and skinning are right up there as well. Gathering-oriented professions have an advantage compared to the crafting ones in the early levels because gathering doesn’t require you to spend gold in order to make some coins. You can find plenty of herbs to collect, ores to mine and beasts to skin, all while you’re levelling. Everything you manage to gather can then be sold in the auction house fairly quickly.
Nov 15 Can both versions be played at the same time? I would play a lot of classic wow in between the queue times in modern wow. I have to wait for queues for raids, wait for M+, wait for pvp queues, wait for mount respawns. During the demo, I had to decide if I wanted to test out the classic demo, or obtain new items on my modern characters. I would have played a lot more classic wow during my downtime in modern wow, but there was an issue where my modern wow account would be logged out of the game, if my classic wow account demo logged in. Pretty please, I would really like if the classic account did not log out the modern wow account and both could be logged in at the same time.Hunterhir8 Nov 15
To fill our pool of beta and stress test participants, we’ll be choosing dedicated players who meet select criteria from both the WoW Classic beta opt-in and the standard Warcraft beta opt-in. Participants will also need to have an active subscription or active game time on their Battle.net Account. While opting-in to the beta is the primary way to make sure you’re in the running to join the test it doesn’t guarantee an invitation to the closed beta test. We may also consider additional factors such as how long a player has been subscribed to the game so that we have the right mix of players to ensure great feedback toward making WoW Classic the very best experience for the community.
You will need initial funds to start this way. Buy for cheap and sell for actual price or higher – that sounds pretty easy. But you should have basic knowledge of prices and always track the market. People use to sell for cheap when they need fast gold or don’t know real value of the item. So, it’s your chance to act. If you see anyone selling an item for low price in trade channel, contact them immediately. You should use all of your trade skills to negotiate about the price to make it as low as possible. It’s important ability to communicate. Besides, it’s good to get addons to trade effectively on Auction House: Aux or Auctioneer. They allow you to scan auction, compare prices, find cheapest options, post items quickly, and many other useful tools. It is possible to make your first thousand out of ten gold you have in a pocket. 

Nov 15 I Don't Have Time To Reach Rank 11-14 I Don't Have Time To Reach Rank 11-14 and this is perfectly ACCEPTABLE! I actually like the fact that rank 11-14 is extremely hard to get and time consuming. I don't care if it's not about skill, it is very RPG feeling in the fact that, the people who put in the most time and effort spilling the most enemy blood are the ones who get the best rewards. as somebody who will NEVER have a chance of getting those ranks and items because; 1. I do not have time to do it 2. even if I did have time I still wouldn't do it because I mentally could not farm BG's that many hours for 3 months I support the PvP system and think it is great, and acquiring the hugely powerful items is a big reward and a status symbol. in Classic WoW the game is less about YOU and more about your guild. even if you are not the person to get rank 14, or a Legendary item it still feels awesome when your guild mates get them because it will make your guild stronger. LOVE IT!Agonyy107 Nov 15
Nov 15 Spell Mechanic Questions and Hopes on Items I am not necessarily looking for any discourse that would lead to an answer, but hopefully this would gain enough traction that Blizzard might see it, and offer some insight to intended function come summer 2019. I know there is a current wall of text somewhere regarding questions on almost every item with a spell damage effect and whether or not they will be granted coefficients from character gear grand spell damage. I noticed one in particular that was left out and wanted to reiterate my personal favorites. Shard of the Fallen Star: Originally benefited in part or completely 1:1 ratio from spell damage and was capable of critting. It was nerfed in patch 2.0 which is after classic wow content. In the spirit of keeping things as they were, do you think Blizzard will keep this mechanic or change it to a post nerf state which although is not classic wow maybe seen as a balanced fix. Weapon List: Hand of Ragnaros, Netzerek the Blood Drinker, Corrupted Ashbringer, Shadowstrike - all received 2:1 coefficent originally in classic. I believe they were a little too strong but did not receive any nerf to my knowledge. Do you think these will remain as it was or be changed to satisfy the hopes for balance?Tunnelboy6 Nov 15
An advice for those who are trying to compete monopolizers: you cannot beat them by selling for less if they follow right steps. You should do opposite: sell for more. Because market will come down if the price goes unreasonably high. You can set a bid on item for the price it should cost and buy out price for higher than a monopolizer is selling. So, common buyer may get an item for the right price or monopolizer has to buy the item at his loss.
Earning gold in World of Warcraft: Classic is all about optimizing your spendings. Back in the day, your character’s skills were acquired from a trainer, using money. Don’t just buy everything he or she offers! Read the skill descriptions and be mindful about them. Quite a few characters can live through the levelling process without learning some of their utility or damage spells. These won’t go anywhere and you’ll be able to learn them later on.
Nov 15 Why was it "easy" for Nost, but hard for Bliz During Blizzcon we were told how challenging (at least that's how it came off) it was for Blizzard to create a working version of Classic... but Nostalrius, with no ties to Blizzard, was able to make a relatively bug free version of Vanilla? When I say "bug free" I know there was "a lot" of issues, but nothing an entire team at Blizzard couldn't fix. Wouldn't it be less work?Goró64 Nov 15

The priest was considered the best overall healer in vanilla WoW. Priests had the biggest selection of healing and defensive spells which could be used in various different situations. Due to this fact, Priests had an easy time finding groups and guilds. If you’ll embark on leveling priest, expect some random whispers from other players inviting you to join their group as a healer. Shadow Priests were also considered as one of the best duelists in the game boasting with serious damage and healing.
There are more passive methods to gain wow classic gold, but these are slower. For example, many people choose to fish in places like Tanaris, or kill Harpies in Feralas and loot items such as mageweaves. These are rather AFK-able, but again, not as rewarding. Some people choose to favour fun over anything, and like in any MMO (massively multiplayer online game), the best way to have fun is playing games with friends or your guild. Dungeon runs with your friends provide social interaction and are definitely helpful over the long-term for your gold stack!
Leatherworking has three specializations: Elemental, Tribal and Dragonscale. I’d pick up Tribal one. It allows to craft Devilsaur set items. Hunters, Rogues, Warriors, Feral Druids, even Enhancement Shamans and Retribution Paladins are among your potential clients. On any realm there is Un’Goro Mafia on Horde and Alliance, they control whole Un’Goro Crater zone and farm Devilsaurs 24/7. They are making thousands of gold. With Dragonscale Spec you are able to craft Black Dragon Mail set. Good demand as well among DPS classes Warriors, Hunters, Shamans, Paladins, for those who wants Bis Pre-Raid items fast and easy.
So we asked ourselves, would it still be possible to deliver an authentic classic experience if we took our modern code, with all its back-end improvements and changes, and used it to process the Patch 1.12 game data? While that might seem counterintuitive, this would inherently include classic systems like skill ranks, old quests and terrain, talents, and so on, while later features like Transmog and Achievements would effectively not exist because they were entirely absent from the data. After weeks of R&D, experimentation, and prototyping, we were confident we could deliver the classic WoW content and gameplay without sacrificing the literally millions of hours put in to back-end development over the past 13 years.
Nov 15 I Don't Have Time To Reach Rank 11-14 I Don't Have Time To Reach Rank 11-14 and this is perfectly ACCEPTABLE! I actually like the fact that rank 11-14 is extremely hard to get and time consuming. I don't care if it's not about skill, it is very RPG feeling in the fact that, the people who put in the most time and effort spilling the most enemy blood are the ones who get the best rewards. as somebody who will NEVER have a chance of getting those ranks and items because; 1. I do not have time to do it 2. even if I did have time I still wouldn't do it because I mentally could not farm BG's that many hours for 3 months I support the PvP system and think it is great, and acquiring the hugely powerful items is a big reward and a status symbol. in Classic WoW the game is less about YOU and more about your guild. even if you are not the person to get rank 14, or a Legendary item it still feels awesome when your guild mates get them because it will make your guild stronger. LOVE IT!Agonyy107 Nov 15
The original animations have also been restored, but WoW’s animation system is tightly coupled with its gameplay code. We had to make changes to both data and code to get the animations back to the 1.12 look. We ran into a few bugs along the way, such as models that should appear prone instead appearing upright, but we were able to correct these with a few fixes.
Nov 15 Loot trading is perfect for vanilla Loot trading is a good thing. It promotes forming close bonds and guilds. For example, lets say you are in a 5 man pug party, and 3 of those party members are in a guild, or are friends. Those 3 can roll for each other and pass the loot to the friend who wants it. ---------------------------------------------------------- Since in vanilla, all casters and healers want the same loot, and all melee and ranged dps want the same loot, you can always justify rolling to increase your friends odds. Now, if there was no loot trading, then pugs get the same chance as you to win loot, and that isn't right. Vanilla is supposed to be about community and friendship, not giving everyone an equal chance at loot. Sure, some people will be inconvenienced by it, but vanilla IS inconvenient, and slow at times, but we sacrifice convenience for more social interaction, and loot sharing will bring friends and guilds together like never before. Blizzard understands what we want, so that's why i'll be playing classic, and you should too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PS: The loners who try to get through the game with none having their back will have a harder time, and that's how it's SUPPOSED to be in an mmo. cant you see? This is nothing if not an improvement.Windsheared159 Nov 15
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